Prizes awarded to the LIGO org, so far

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PTS
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Prizes awarded to the LIGO org, so far

文章 PTS » 週六 04 6月, 2016 07:40

Since announcing detection of gravitational wave in February, the LIGO Org has received several prizes:

a. Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics - "The Special Breakthrough Prize can be awarded at any time in recognition of an exceptional scientific achievement. The $3 million prize will be shared as follows: the three LIGO founders -- Ronald W.P. Drever (Caltech); Kip S. Thorne (Caltech); and Rainer Weiss (MIT) -- will share $1 million; and the 1012 contributing scientists, engineers, and staff will share $2 million -

b. The 2016 Gruber Prize in Cosmology - Ronald W.P. Drever (Caltech), Kip S. Thorne (Caltech), and Rainer Weiss (MIT) will each receive a gold medal and will share a $500,000 award. The Prize citation reads: "The Gruber Foundation proudly presents the 2016 Cosmology Prize to Rainer Weiss, Kip Thorne, Ronald Drever, and the entire LIGO team for pursuing a vision to observe the universe in gravitational waves, leading to a first detection that emanated from the collision of two black holes. This remarkable event provided the first glimpse into the strong‐gravity regime of Einstein's theory of general relativity that governs the dynamics of black holes, giving direct evidence for their existence, and demonstrating that their nature is consistent with the predictions of general relativity." -

c. 天文學獎 平均頒予羅奈爾特.德雷弗 (Ronald W P Drever), 基普.索恩 (Kip S Thorne) 和雷納.韋斯 (Rainer Weiss)

There may be several more coming....and then the Nobel Prize


PTS

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 09:42

一百年前愛恩斯坦提出的引力波今日終於被証實。這個引力波據我理解重點並不是指的是純粹一種波動的東西。常人聽起來這名詞指的是一種波,以為聲波光波X波什麼波那一類,其實並不是那麼簡單直觀。其最大含意是抽象的,是和相對論的扭曲空間理論有關係,是指空間並不是我們一般人認為的空間,空間是會伸縮扭曲的。那個大型觀察裝置,就是因為外太空的大引力作用下,而量度出整個裝置有被拉長的跡象,扭曲了裝置所在的空間~所以才獲得諾貝爾奘,最佳科學實驗奘。

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 10:29

這里有一點我致今未明白,曾經也看過一些資料性的報導,也看不懂它在說些什麼,就是如何測量出這空間被拉長這點我想不到,或且被縮短,變形扭曲。是該裝置變了還是空間變了?裝置變形我們常人很好理解得到,物件熱帳冷縮都有啦,可是空間變形這點就非常不好理解得到,更不好理解它是如何証實測量而做的這舉世驁人的偉大實驗了。

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文章 PTS » 週日 05 6月, 2016 15:13

MANDII 寫:這里有一點我致今未明白,曾經也看過一些資料性的報導,也看不懂它在說些什麼,就是如何測量出這空間被拉長這點我想不到,或且被縮短,變形扭曲。是該裝置變了還是空間變了?裝置變形我們常人很好理解得到,物件熱帳冷縮都有啦,可是空間變形這點就非常不好理解得到,更不好理解它是如何証實測量而做的這舉世驁人的偉大實驗了。
The LIGO setup is basically a huge Michelson Interferometer. Please read the following first, before reading on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson_interferometer

The gravitational wave resulting from the merger of the 2 blackholes will compress/relax the space. When this wave reached the Earth, the compression/relaxation will cause fringes in the LIGO interferometer, thus detecting the wave.

The significance of this experiment is the precision required. The compression/relaxation cause a very tiny change of 1 part in 10 to the power 23 (1 part in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000).

The LIGO setup has taken into consideration of all possible sources of error and 熱帳冷縮 is a simple problem. In order to ensure the STRAIGHTNESS of the optical paths, they have to take into consideration of the curvature of the 4km concrete structure caused by the curvature of the earth.

The Nobel prizes for 2016 will not be decided until later this year, but I am pretty sure the LIGO team is the first pick.

pts

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 16:32

Thank you .

You mean this particular wave can change the space ( compress /relax) . And this experiment LIGO (the two huge arms ) can detect this wave , by looking at some light fringes of the wave , and measuring it's tremendously tiny difference throughout the experiment .Light and wave is same thing or having same nature as we knew . And talking about the idea of the experiment setup as I read the article you quoted above , basically this experiment aims by splitting the light beam of this wave ,and measure something different in the light fringe pattern ...


However , I am eager to know and to feel the change of space ... What does this means when the space is changed .
if so , talking about this LIGO, this is just a device to detect the existence of the wave , this particular wave . But it's not proving the changes of space . How can we know the space is changed from this LIGO ??? We heard and knew from relativity theory that the space can be changed by this wave . But how to prove it ? How do we know the space is become bigger or smaller as the wave comes by .

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文章 WFPC2 » 週日 05 6月, 2016 17:11

廣義相對論描述當帶質量的物體加速時,會於周遭產生時空漣漪
重力波,重力波不是任何物質的波動,而是時空本身的波動,當重
力波穿過地球時,地球、你的身體以及實驗裝置都會發生極輕微的
尺寸改變,而實驗装置中互相干涉的雷射光束所產生的干涉條紋會發生
相的改变,透過觀察這些改變從而證實了重力波的存在。

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 17:56

引力或重力波是時空漣漪時空波動,會引起此波所經過的物體的尺寸改變。這句話説得很好很淸楚。不過我疑問的是,這實驗是測出什麼到底?証明了什麼?它是測到有這種波,是測到那裝置有改變微小的尺寸,可並没有測到空間有什麼異樣吧 。之所以我們認為空間有變,那是因為理論上說的,相對論說的。而不是這個實驗直接量度出來的。

簡單地講,它是量度到物件有變長,看其光涉光普也知道有波的存在,但是,它還不算量度出空間有變化,比如大小尺寸,量不出。是簡接性實驗,建基於相對論基礎的,而不是直接証明空間變化証明理論。那麼假如理論有錯,那不就是全部錯了。

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 18:06

我最想知道,空間(時空)變大變長了,是怎樣看出來的~
怎樣証明。

物件變長,不代表空間變長

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文章 WFPC2 » 週日 05 6月, 2016 18:35

除了重力波的發現,其他諸如引力透镜現像,地球的重力時間遲
滞效應,事實上全球定位系统技術GPS也考慮了此效才能運作,
顯示廣義相對論的威力之大,它到目前仍然是可信的。

既然廣義相對論在近九十多年來都不斷通過實驗的驗證,
為甚麼不相信相對論,重力波會令空間發生波動呢?

數十年前歐洲多個的反猶太人主義非常激烈,愛因斯坦的
理論遭到貶抑,相關的作者更出版了一百個反相對論的烈士
之著作。

愛因斯坦說道:若我是錯的,一個人反對我就夠了。

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 18:46

我是相信相對論並崇拜愛恩斯坦的。
其它實驗不多說只是這實驗既然年初時這麼出名,全世界觸目被喻為世紀大發現,我當時也就去看看這方面的消息,可到現在這一刻,和我所期望的實驗,有出入~

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文章 WFPC2 » 週日 05 6月, 2016 18:57

科學家相信相對論當然不是基於個人主義或民族主義,而是客觀的
科學證據,反相對論的言論也是基於科學證據或是合理的思考
實驗。

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文章 PTS » 週日 05 6月, 2016 20:09

MANDII 寫:Thank you .

You mean this particular wave can change the space ( compress /relax) . And this experiment LIGO (the two huge arms ) can detect this wave , by looking at some light fringes of the wave , and measuring it's tremendously tiny difference throughout the experiment .Light and wave is same thing or having same nature as we knew . And talking about the idea of the experiment setup as I read the article you quoted above , basically this experiment aims by splitting the light beam of this wave ,and measure something different in the light fringe pattern ...


However , I am eager to know and to feel the change of space ... What does this means when the space is changed .
if so , talking about this LIGO, this is just a device to detect the existence of the wave , this particular wave . But it's not proving the changes of space . How can we know the space is changed from this LIGO ??? We heard and knew from relativity theory that the space can be changed by this wave . But how to prove it ? How do we know the space is become bigger or smaller as the wave comes by .
If you have read and understand the working of the Michelson interferometer, you should know the 2 arms should be of exactly the same length (I mean the distance between the 2 mirrors of each arm) such that the 2 light beams (usually monochromatic) will interfere with each other. If the 2 optical paths are exactly of the same length or differ by exact number of waves, the 2 beams will be in constructive interference. If the path difference is otherwise, fringes will be formed. The pattern of fringes will depend on the amount of path difference, in terms of wavelength of the light beam.

In the LIGO setup, the 2 optical paths are kept at exact lengths accurate to 1/100 wavelength (you should now appreciate the difficulty in maintaining such accuracy over an optical length of 4 km).
When the Earth experiences gravitational wave, it is compressed and relaxed and thus the 4 km optical length will be changed. As the 2 optical paths are at 90 degrees, the compression/relaxation will result differently depending on the direction of the gravitational wave. If the gravitational wave comes along the direction of one arm, only this arm will be compressed/relaxed while there will be no change in the other (this is just an imaginary situation, in reality, both arm will be affected).

As I pointed out previously, this compression/relaxation will just make a change of 4000/100000000000000000000000 km. This tiny change is very difficult to measure, even using the interference method.


pts

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文章 PTS » 週日 05 6月, 2016 20:16

MANDII 寫:我是相信相對論並崇拜愛恩斯坦的。
其它實驗不多說只是這實驗既然年初時這麼出名,全世界觸目被喻為世紀大發現,我當時也就去看看這方面的消息,可到現在這一刻,和我所期望的實驗,有出入~
There are several youtube videos. Just search "ligo" when you log in youtube.

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文章 MANDII » 週日 05 6月, 2016 22:10

PTS 寫:
MANDII 寫:Thank you .

You mean this particular wave can change the space ( compress /relax) . And this experiment LIGO (the two huge arms ) can detect this wave , by looking at some light fringes of the wave , and measuring it's tremendously tiny difference throughout the experiment .Light and wave is same thing or having same nature as we knew . And talking about the idea of the experiment setup as I read the article you quoted above , basically this experiment aims by splitting the light beam of this wave ,and measure something different in the light fringe pattern ...


However , I am eager to know and to feel the change of space ... What does this means when the space is changed .
if so , talking about this LIGO, this is just a device to detect the existence of the wave , this particular wave . But it's not proving the changes of space . How can we know the space is changed from this LIGO ??? We heard and knew from relativity theory that the space can be changed by this wave . But how to prove it ? How do we know the space is become bigger or smaller as the wave comes by .
If you have read and understand the working of the Michelson interferometer, you should know the 2 arms should be of exactly the same length (I mean the distance between the 2 mirrors of each arm) such that the 2 light beams (usually monochromatic) will interfere with each other. If the 2 optical paths are exactly of the same length or differ by exact number of waves, the 2 beams will be in constructive interference. If the path difference is otherwise, fringes will be formed. The pattern of fringes will depend on the amount of path difference, in terms of wavelength of the light beam.

In the LIGO setup, the 2 optical paths are kept at exact lengths accurate to 1/100 wavelength (you should now appreciate the difficulty in maintaining such accuracy over an optical length of 4 km).
When the Earth experiences gravitational wave, it is compressed and relaxed and thus the 4 km optical length will be changed. As the 2 optical paths are at 90 degrees, the compression/relaxation will result differently depending on the direction of the gravitational wave. If the gravitational wave comes along the direction of one arm, only this arm will be compressed/relaxed while there will be no change in the other (this is just an imaginary situation, in reality, both arm will be affected).

As I pointed out previously, this compression/relaxation will just make a change of 4000/100000000000000000000000 km. This tiny change is very difficult to measure, even using the interference method.


pts




Very good and sharp explanation of this experimental principle . Now I can understand much more about how we know the space in America land of the two arms is changed at that important moment .

Light and space it's talking about actually . Not the physical length and dimension of the arm as I was thinking about .Thought we can't see the space is change but we can see the light is changed . If the light path change in length , it means the space is changed in length as well , or say the space compression or relaxation . Because the light is the fastest thing in the space , it's speed is same in any space no matter the space is compressed or relaxed . So if the light path length becomes longer , meaning the space becomes longer , or bigger ,something like that .

Optic path of fixed 4km length in usual earth condition . When gravity wave come occasionally , this two light beam and it's light path changes in tiny length , and see the fringes image . If no change in path length as usual time ,then no fringes is seen .

I can feel the space is changed now , through this great experiment . Thank you so much :>

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文章 lightning » 週日 05 6月, 2016 22:38

WFPC2 寫:除了重力波的發現,其他諸如引力透镜現像,地球的重力時間遲
滞效應,事實上全球定位系统技術GPS也考慮了此效才能運作,
顯示廣義相對論的威力之大,它到目前仍然是可信的。

既然廣義相對論在近九十多年來都不斷通過實驗的驗證,
為甚麼不相信相對論,重力波會令空間發生波動呢?

數十年前歐洲多個的反猶太人主義非常激烈,愛因斯坦的
理論遭到貶抑,相關的作者更出版了一百個反相對論烈士
之著作。

愛因斯坦說道:若我是錯的,一個人反對我就夠了。
WFPC2 寫:科學家相信相對論當然不是基於個人主義或民族主義,而是客觀的
科學證據,反相對論的言論也是基於科學證據或是合理的思考
實驗。


愛因斯嘅相對論咁成功,而且通過咗咁多次實驗證明係岩嘅,
想挑戰佢都唔係咁容易。

若果只係一味反對又攞唔出理由同證據,都只係淪為空想同空話罷了。

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