請給「天文平有平玩」一個機會

funoooo 寫到:

Eddy So 寫到:

Boss Funoooo兄：與其追求“那些品牌鏡是Class 1”，不如多研究那些性能與價格比高的天文望遠鏡及其他相關的配件。別忘記你開設儀器社，其中的一個抱負是“提供低價優質天文儀器給中小學生”，這類Class 1的產品別說是中小學生，就算是一般有收入的成年業餘學好者都“敬而遠之”。 Bingo

當然不會忘記. 我仍會堅持天文平有平玩, 貴有貴玩. Twisted Evil

Boss Funoooo和Eddy兄的對話, 使我有一個建議, 希望各大老闆及代理想想, 為推廣天文, 讓新手有一些器材可選用。

一般初接觸天文的人, 大概不會花數萬元追求FSQ或TBM, 甚至不會賣什麼4吋Apochromatic。反而會多點像MANDII兄, 只用二三千元, 起碼可以試試天文拍攝。不一定是花得起或花不起的問題, 而是要先入門, 取得經驗, 才按部就班考慮升級。

當然, 這些器材最好是有現貨或一兩星期內可交貨的(不然, 初學者的熱情會完全冷卻)。

那愚見認為, 初接觸天文者可概略分兩類
1. 沒有收入的學生, 可能花的是二千元一套目視器材(1a), 或三千五百元一套可以做點天文攝影的器材(1b)。器材要搭公共交通工具能搬至觀星點。
2. 有收入的初學者, 可能花的是五千元一套目視器材(2a), 或九千元一套可以做點深空天文攝影的器材(2b)。器材要沒有私家車的人能用合理的消費搬至觀星點。

希望器材在價錢內可包括基本配件(目鏡、尋星鏡、天頂鏡、接環等)。

這裡除各大老闆可回應外, 任何曾經是「初接觸天文者」都可以分享經驗或推薦器材組合, 希望可以為入門者提供一個購買器材指引。

中子星 註冊時間: 2007-07-06 文章: 1803

In the beginning, Boss Funoooo has a business concept of selling low end astro-gears to students and beginners. On the other hand, he is using top end toys of 5D Mark 11 and SBIG camera and seeking for class 1 products continuously. If I am a customer, I am lost because he talks about selling low end products but only using high end products himself. Should I or should I not buy from him ??

中子星 註冊時間: 2007-11-13 文章: 1019 來自: 香港

Totally agree that we should provide more low end products so that more and more people could enjoy star-gazing and astrophotography. Funnooo may adjust the products in his sale list so as attact more young people.

夸克星 註冊時間: 2003-10-09 文章: 2207

Dear Star Lovers,

Low end products always exists in the market.

Take a walk in Ap Liu Street and you will see tons of such gears - A 6 inch f/5 Newtonian, with equatorial mount, 3 Plossl eyepieces, achromatic finder, archromatic barlow lens, HKD 1750.

Too expensive ? No problem - a 90 mm refractor with tripod, star finder, 1 star duagomnal. one Kellner eyepiece, beautiful carry bag - HKD 600.

Still cannot afford the price ? No problem - 3 inch Newtonian spherical primary + alt-azm mount + eyepiece + finder + barlow HKD 300 , you may still bargain. Gurantee optically class one.

Still expensive ? OK then, 60 mm refractor + eyepiece + star diagonal HK200 something.

Still not cheap enough ? Come on..........

Best regards
Chan Yuk Lun

白矮星 註冊時間: 2005-09-11 文章: 684

其實都係豐儉由人和個人想點入門。

D advice 都係參考 -- 我估我地都係怕D人發覺日後唔都看星﹐先叫人唔好一開始就投資在貴/大的器材上﹐免得浪費。

有D入門鏡仍然很好的 -- 例如一支4“牛頓鏡﹐用來加地平式腳架都可以看好多東西 (我未配到 tubering﹐否則第一支 C記4“牛頓鏡都好好用) -- 根本冇話邊D絕對唔適合入門既 --
一次PTC我們都預見一個攝影發燒友因為看見天文攝影那麼美麗﹐同 LT 購置套 GPD2 + Vixen NA140﹐都不是我們 typical 入門裝備喇。

看自己 budget 和打算點玩而已。

白矮星 註冊時間: 2005-09-11 文章: 684

syyuen168 寫到:

In the beginning, Boss Funoooo has a business concept of selling low end astro-gears to students and beginners. On the other hand, he is using top end toys of 5D Mark 11 and SBIG camera and seeking for class 1 products continuously. If I am a customer, I am lost because he talks about selling low end products but only using high end products himself. Should I or should I not buy from him ??

I don't think it is "low end" as such, but reasonable beginners gear at an affordable price
He excluded binoculars already -- but for me at Water Mouth I used binoculars to view some M objects, which is great because I get to practice to navigate the night sky for not so familiar objects (e.g. open clusters, special binary stars) -- there is a kind of fun (I owned 2 binoculars, the smaller 10x50 is good for beginners too)

夸克星 註冊時間: 2006-06-30 文章: 4824

各位大哥，

當然有平嘢啦！
http://www.stargazer.hk/Kson1.htm
******************************************
Kson KTA40080EQ

是一支不可多得平價折射+赤道儀望遠鏡. 已包加電跟馬達。

直徑 80mm 焦距 400mm, 無極軸鏡。

照片只供參考之用

RMB 1250.00 (HK$1440.00)
********************************************
Kson KTE80080EQ

是一支不可多得平價反射+赤道儀望遠鏡. 已包電跟馬達。

直徑 80mm 焦距 800mm, 無極軸鏡。

照片只供參考之用

RMB 1300.00 (HK$1495.00)
********************************************
最大問題是馬達未出，一日未見，一日都未硬推。
如果有人要，可先拿鏡子；後補馬達。

我現在是真心推廣平價天文的。就算 ED80 及 ED102 都是以平價為主。而我亦會用 Kson ED 鏡作觀察拍照。

所以我平又玩，貴又玩。

Dear Mr Chan,

Surely, there are some cheap products in Apliu Street or Lo Woo Commercial Centre, but some are, unfortunately, of doubtful quality. My experience with those shop keepers there is that they know next to nothing about stargazing and cannot inform newbies about what to buy.

So it would be good that we have some testing/evaluating of these products so that newbies can know what advantages and limitations should be expected.

BTW, I am interested in the 3" $300 Newtonian complete system which is guranteed as optically class one.

Dear Boss funoooo,

Thank you for introducing the more affordable items, however the "More Information" for these two items are DEAD links. One of the photos is missing.

What is needed, as I mention to the god of mirrors above, is the explanation of the merits and problems of using these scopes. I would be even better if you have tested it yourself and post a report here.

Dear Amber Cat Garfield,

Binoculars are good starting points, no doubt about it, especially if you got 50mm or 60mm aperture. However, to be able to study a bit more, for example Jupiter, it moons and Saturn and some Messier objects, you may need a magnification of 75X or above. So I hope that we have some reasonably priced scopes that can provide such performance.

Beginning astrophotograph is another area. Not everyone can afford a Vixen system as the first one, so some introductory systems would be good for beginners.

Regards to all,
Tang

白矮星 註冊時間: 2004-10-01 文章: 649

鄧兄所言甚是，我是百分百同意及支持，在未來亦會重定路線，照顧下各方面入門者的需求。

其實亦如鏡神所說，市面﹝某街﹞的確已有極低價選擇，所以過去幾年我亦迴避了這方面低價競爭，走走中價路線，還可以有小小作為。其實供應是按需求，近多年新入門者﹝最初級﹞一直數字低下，大家從各天文會會員人數下降可知，去年情況可能略有改善﹝因為是天文年和日食天象﹞，業餘天文能否在香港持續或增長，未來真是靠大家了。

天文公園的開幕是香港天文圈一大喜訊，希望有關當局能好好利用和推廣，我在此順便提一建意，當局可否安排定時 "黃昏班車" 逢星期六﹝好天﹞開往天文公園 ..... Smile

中子星 註冊時間: 2004-02-14 文章: 1388

I don't think it is the gears that matter, it is the attitude. I think a beginner amateur should

1. have enormous amount of patience.
2. have reasonable expectation on his gears
3. have a reasonable learning curve e.g. not shooting DSO at f=2000mm immediately.
Then there is no need to spend a lot of money.

Just a little sharing on my steps on learning astronomy:

1. I started with a binocular, which was the cheapest and easiest tool to use to find my way in the sky and hunting DSOs. How expensive can this be?

2. Then I bought a cheap Newtonian scope on eq mount. I still remembered that it took me 40 minutes to get Mars (in Aug 2003) in my eyepiece. Most people would have given up at this point. When the scope moves one way, the image didn't move that way. It took lots of practice.

3. I suggest that a beginner should start with observing the moon and planets. They are easy to find and provide lots of details to observe. One can also shoot them with simple dc. If interested, get a webcam. Don't expect world class photos at this point. It is better to get the best out of the gear and enjoy the process.

4. Then use a telescope to find bright DSOs. No need to buy a GOTO mount if money is an issue. Just need a good starmap. Star hopping is a great way to learn the sky. If you don't want to learn this, of course you need money to buy GOTO if you want to skip this important part of your astronomy learning.

5. If one wants to do photography, just use DSLR on a fixed tripod. Shoot star trails and other things that require low magnification. If one expects high magnification world class photo first day out, of course you need more money.

6. If one can get to this point, I think that person is no longer a beginner and it is no longer the issue discussed in this thread.

Astronomy is not expensive if you start with (1) and (2). However, most people seem to want to get to (5) or beyond too quickly. Is this why astronomy seem expensive to beginners? Why not promote visual astronomy? e.g. There are lots of interesting things to observe with a cheap 4 inch reflector. Is photography far too dominating amateur astronomy in HK?

Even if one pursues photography, it doesn’t have to be expensive if one has reasonable expectation on the gears. I see many nice pictures here shot with DSLR on fixed tripod only (e.g. those by Peterpeter and those sunset eclipse shots)
Most people see the best pictures here shot with guiding, expensive mounts and scopes….….of course they are expensive. Why not use simple gears and shoot things that those gears can be good at if money is really an issue?

Most students are interested in causal observation of the sky but not pursuing this hobby in any serious way not just because they don’t have gears. It is the lack of patience. (and the sky condition does not help!) Most students won’t have the patience to get pass (2) above. To most of them, facebook and PSP are much more interesting than spending a long time on public transport to go to a dark place under potentially uncertain weather with a heavy scope (Anything is heavy to them....). I have many gears available for students to use, but only a few of them are interested in astronomy enough to set them up to observe frequently. So it is not the gears that matters.

A few weeks ago, I saw a form 1 student in public transport taking a suitcase with a small Newtonian to stargaze. Seeing him walking with the suitcase in the dark on his own was already a wonder. How many people would have that kind of patience? Give that scope free to every school in HK, and will you see this scene more often? His scope was cheap; his attitude inspiring.

So, to promote astronomy, it is not (just) the gears that matter. It is the attitude.

夸克星 註冊時間: 2006-06-30 文章: 4824

syyuen168 寫到:

In the beginning, Boss Funoooo has a business concept of selling low end astro-gears to students and beginners. On the other hand, he is using top end toys of 5D Mark 11 and SBIG camera and seeking for class 1 products continuously. If I am a customer, I am lost because he talks about selling low end products but only using high end products himself. Should I or should I not buy from him ??

Syyuen168, I never to buy the 5D markII.
Furthermore, I also use the Kson ED80 and Kson ED102. 擦擦汗

夸克星 註冊時間: 2006-06-30 文章: 4824

大黃傻貓GARFIELD 寫到:

syyuen168 寫到:

In the beginning, Boss Funoooo has a business concept of selling low end astro-gears to students and beginners. On the other hand, he is using top end toys of 5D Mark 11 and SBIG camera and seeking for class 1 products continuously. If I am a customer, I am lost because he talks about selling low end products but only using high end products himself. Should I or should I not buy from him ??

I don't think it is "low end" as such, but reasonable beginners gear at an affordable price
He excluded binoculars already -- but for me at Water Mouth I used binoculars to view some M objects, which is great because I get to practice to navigate the night sky for not so familiar objects (e.g. open clusters, special binary stars) -- there is a kind of fun (I owned 2 binoculars, the smaller 10x50 is good for beginners too)

Dear GARFIELD,
Thanks for your point. I am not excluded binocular; however, I can not get so many items at thesame time. (I need to keep the stock.) It will be in the list soon.

夸克星 註冊時間: 2006-06-30 文章: 4824

鄧登凳寫到:

Dear Mr Chan,

Surely, there are some cheap products in Apliu Street or Lo Woo Commercial Centre, but some are, unfortunately, of doubtful quality. My experience with those shop keepers there is that they know next to nothing about stargazing and cannot inform newbies about what to buy.

So it would be good that we have some testing/evaluating of these products so that newbies can know what advantages and limitations should be expected.

BTW, I am interested in the 3" $300 Newtonian complete system which is guranteed as optically class one.

Dear Boss funoooo,

Thank you for introducing the more affordable items, however the "More Information" for these two items are DEAD links. One of the photos is missing.

What is needed, as I mention to the god of mirrors above, is the explanation of the merits and problems of using these scopes. I would be even better if you have tested it yourself and post a report here.

Dear Amber Cat Garfield,

Binoculars are good starting points, no doubt about it, especially if you got 50mm or 60mm aperture. However, to be able to study a bit more, for example Jupiter, it moons and Saturn and some Messier objects, you may need a magnification of 75X or above. So I hope that we have some reasonably priced scopes that can provide such performance.

Beginning astrophotograph is another area. Not everyone can afford a Vixen system as the first one, so some introductory systems would be good for beginners.

Regards to all,
Tang

To: 鄧登凳
有關 testing 一事, 我都可接受. 但我沒有功力去測試. 如果你們有人測試, 我樂意拿出給大家用. Twisted Evil

夸克星 註冊時間: 2006-06-30 文章: 4824

BossKwan 寫到:

鄧兄所言甚是，我是百分百同意及支持，在未來亦會重定路線，照顧下各方面入門者的需求。

其實亦如鏡神所說，市面﹝某街﹞的確已有極低價選擇，所以過去幾年我亦迴避了這方面低價競爭，走走中價路線，還可以有小小作為。其實供應是按需求，近多年新入門者﹝最初級﹞一直數字低下，大家從各天文會會員人數下降可知，去年情況可能略有改善﹝因為是天文年和日食天象﹞，業餘天文能否在香港持續或增長，未來真是靠大家了。

天文公園的開幕是香港天文圈一大喜訊，希望有關當局能好好利用和推廣，我在此順便提一建意，當局可否安排定時 "黃昏班車" 逢星期六﹝好天﹞開往天文公園 ..... Smile

關老板,
入去都不是大問題, 出來先大件事. 天文公園仍在觀望中....... Shocked

夸克星 註冊時間: 2004-11-08 文章: 8113 來自: 香港

我的第一支天文望遠鏡和Mount也是從關老板那裏購入
它那裏什麼價位的東西都有
視乎你自己的需要